Copywrite of personal picture postings

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DarkLizerd
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Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by DarkLizerd »

On another site, BoundAnna.net, there as a program someone created: "Selfbondage Memory Game" that was comming along quite nicely, with a building set of pictures sets. Then, the question of picture ownership came up, and it was determined that the best thing to do was withdraw the picture sets because copywrite lawsuit was not wanted...
(long story longer...)
So... that has kinda killed the advancement of the program, after all, with out the picture sets, it is just a memory match program... so...
For every one here that posts pictures, would you give your consent to have your pictures that are posted here, be used to make sets for the progrm???

You could also, to make sure that your consent is verifed, post links to your pictures in this thread...
(No need to overload the system with several copies of the pictures...)
Only pictures linked here will be used...

--- program and thread links -----
Program thread link: http://forum.boundanna.net/board/viewto ... =28&t=5721
BoundAnna's thread: http://forum.boundanna.net/board/viewto ... =28&t=7332
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seidenki
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by seidenki »

This problem come up on Milovana, too, since pics are needed for new teases. There are threads in the forums about where to find free pics.

As far as I know, few owners of those pics care enough to ask Milovana to take them down. It has happened, of course, and they comply, but it's very rare.

Sei.
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DarkLizerd
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by DarkLizerd »

Personaly...
If I had a pay site, and had free pictures, and those pictures had my site name on them, and someone reposted them somewhere, or they were used in some program, and th site name stayed on them...
I would accept that as free advertising...
But use my membership pictures... now that would be different... that would be thief!

BUT, how could someone determin if a picture is a free one, or a menbership one???
Unles someone went to the site and searched the free pictures...
Or the site was down, or didn't exist any more...
Or the site name missing...
or....
or....
or....

I don't think "Joe's house of Porn.com" will be spending all day searching every program picture set, every porn website, evey porn form searching for other people and sites looking for someone that used one of his picturs... It is ot worth the time spent... UNLESS you are a MAJOR site, or a MAJOR program creator would anything even be said...
Rember Napster??? That would be classified as major...

But, some a$$holes will leave Napster alone, and go after every single user of the site and charge them will milions of copywite infringes costing milions of dollars.... And this person that makes minimum wage is expected to pay the company that makes 10s to 100s of BILLIONS per year charging $50.00 per CD....

(Copywrite laws useto mean... you cany copy my work and claim it as yours... Now .... (oh, well...rant terminated.) )
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pleasewrap
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by pleasewrap »

DarkLizerd wrote:BUT, how could someone determin if a picture is a free one, or a menbership one???
It doesn't matter. Even if someone posts a picture without charging for it, they retain copyright control over it. If someone wants to use it, they need to seek permission from the copyright holder with a few exceptions (journalism, for example). If they don't, then they expose themselves to copyright infringement issues.

Unless something is put in to the public domain (which is a type of license, not where it is visible), it remains copyrighted.
(Copywrite laws useto mean... you cany copy my work and claim it as yours... Now .... (oh, well...rant terminated.) )
No, that's never what they've meant at all. You're confusing "fair use" exceptions with attribution. I could quote a portion of a book or a poem, give appropriate attribution, and use it within something of my own, but that's "fair use." If I reproduce the work in question in its entirety, even attribution doesn't avoid copyright issues.

Copyright is designed to protect the creator of a work and ensure that they have some control and possibility of payment for the use of their creation. The one and only way to know that you can use an image is to get permission from the copyright holder.

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DarkLizerd
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by DarkLizerd »

There have been several threads about this topic...
(copywrites...)
Let's not go down that dark alley again...

So... anyone else got personal pictures they want imortalazed in a program that will see a narrow user base???
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roboman
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by roboman »

I'm just guessing, but I would guess that if you wrote to the owners of many of the big pay sites and ask them for the ok to use some of their photos with the water mark and their site info still on the photo, that most would ok the use and look at it as advertising. Maybe even include a credits page in the program some where that would hotlink back to any of the sites that photos came from.

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DarkLizerd
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by DarkLizerd »

Unless it's some big program, no one will really care...
I've heard about some people asking sites for their permission to do just that... no reply...
But, ya gota play it safe, even if no one notices or even cares...

Like here I've posted this here, and got only ONE reply...
Hmmm, I thought it was in this thread somewhere...
Oh,well...
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dhudson
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by dhudson »

I am a photographer and videographer. As was said in another post in this thread, using my photos and videos without my permission is theft. If I post a pic to a forum you still can't copy it elsewhere without permission. I've had people claim the journalism card but that's only if the pic itself is the story as in the case of the Haitian photographer whose twitter pics of the Haitian disaster were taken by major news outlets without compensation to illustrate their stories about the Haiti disaster. The journalism permission applies if the pic is illustrating a review of my site or video -- not someone else's or the topic in general. An article about my body of work would also fall under the fair use. Not public domain, but permission to use without payment. So feel free to recommend my clips and sites and use the sample pics to do so. Don't use my stuff to illustrate your website on alternative sexual practices without asking.

Stealing my member content or the clips I sell is theft. It costs money to make content and I can't sell what people steal and give away for free.
Worse, there are sites who have advertising on them and make money from that advertising because people are sharing for free. Maybe they bought, maybe they hacked clips4sale I don't know (they didn't hack my paysite but they can give Verotel a stolen or fake credit card to gain access; this has happened a few times, one particular individual Larry Lackey who really needs to have some alone time in the Nevada desert in summer with no water dozens of miles from any help).

I'm a nice guy and easy to deal with. If you want my samples for your use on unrelated websites, ask me. I might well give you better quality and bigger pics and more of them!

D. Hudson
http://www.bondagephoto.info
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d3vious.g3nius
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by d3vious.g3nius »

dhudson, while I understand where you are coming from you are simply wrong. Theft or stealing involves depriving you of your property. As in, I stole your car thus, you no longer have your car.

But, if I, who as an example would never buy your images, downloaded them and shared them with other people who more than likely would never buy your images, you lost nothing. Again, these are copies of your work, to which you have an infinite amount of. It is illegal to do what I claim in the example, but it is not theft or stealing.
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stephanie_cd
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by stephanie_cd »

The term "theft" seems to depend on where you live and what court is currently looking at the issue.

"The illegal downloading of Australian films online is a form of theft. I say Australian films, but of course, the illegal downloading of any protected content is a form of theft,"
said Australian Attorney-General George Brandis."http://www.zdnet.com/au/stop-the-torren ... 000026339/

On the other hand, "the United States Supreme Court held in Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not constitute stolen property. Instead, 'interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud.'" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_ ... 22Theft.22

In November 2013, Florida Supreme Court 'Judge Kathleen Williams decided that the movie studios and its witnesses are not allowed to use “pejorative” terms including “piracy,” “theft” and “stealing” during the upcoming proceedings.' http://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-banned-fro ... al-131129/ Of course, the SAME movie studios and MPAA have been using the "Piracy is theft" slogan at the start of DVD movies.

I usually LOATHE comments on news stories because they're often from people who apparently didn't actually READ the story, but a comment from that Australian link seems to sum it up pretty well:
  • "...many people take a running jump from 'it's not theft' to 'so I should get things for free'.

    People interested in protecting their IP probably feel that it needs a 'bad' term associated with it to make people stop thinking its harmless."
d3vious.g3nius wrote:But, if I, who as an example would never buy your images, downloaded them and shared them with other people who more than likely would never buy your images, you lost nothing.
If you can PROVE that the other people WOULD NEVER buy his images, you might have something. If there's even a slight chance that they might, though, you really don't, and sometimes it's hard enough to predict our own actions, let alone those of someone else.

The big problem, is that these pictures are digital and thus easy to copy, and you're already connected to the internet when you "acquired" them, which means if YOU share something with 5 friends and THEY each share it with 5 friends, and one of THOSE friends puts it on Tumblr, that's it. It goes from one copy to twenty-five to a few thousand copies floating around the internet in a matter of hours, and now NOBODY needs to buy it.

tiemeupalso
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by tiemeupalso »

get real.how many people really go to the trouble to copyright on every photo they put on the net.thats a lot of paperwork for the average person that just uses his phone to do selfies.

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Franzia
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by Franzia »

This applies more to professional photos rather than personal, but I look at this way: a hypothetical situation where I'm a bondage photographer/videographer with a pay site.

Realistically, whether it's legal or not and whether I like it or not- some of my work would 'escape' my control and appear who knows where. Yes, dhudson, it would be nice if they at least asked for permission, but while there's no way to totally stop it, as long as it's a few sporadic incidents and not a systematic copying of dozens or even hundreds of separate pics, I'd probably figure, 'Oh what the heck.. it is the internet after all' and let it slide, even if the few pics ended up being multiplied countless times. HOWEVER- if my watermark was cloned or cropped out, that's different. It's another thing entirely then-- total war!! :evil:

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stephanie_cd
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by stephanie_cd »

tiemeupalso wrote:how many people really go to the trouble to copyright on every photo they put on the net.thats a lot of paperwork for the average person that just uses his phone to do selfies.
You are obviously confusing "copyright" with the mostly antiquated "copyright registration process."

Since 1989 in the US, 1988 in the UK, and a hundred years before that for much of Europe:

"Under the [Berne] Convention, copyrights for creative works are automatically in force upon their creation without being asserted or declared. An author need not 'register' or 'apply for' a copyright in countries adhering to the Convention. As soon as a work is 'fixed', that is, written or recorded on some physical medium, its author is automatically entitled to all copyrights in the work and to any derivative works, unless and until the author explicitly disclaims them or until the copyright expires." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright# ... ted_States

When you click the "Submit" button here, when you write something at home and "Save As," or when your camera saves a picture as a .jpg, congratulations -- you become the proud owner of a copyrighted work, no paperwork required!

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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by dhudson »

Yes it is theft. No, you don't have right to share my photos. Or the music of some rock band. My photos and videos are property, intellectual property. If you don't want to buy my work, don't look at it. If you want to look at it, pay the fee. If you don't, you have stolen from me the amount of money of the fee. If I don't make money, I can't make new content and I've lost the capital invested to make what you stole.
It costs money to make content. Girls cost money (because they have rent to pay etc.). Cameras cost money to acquire and maintain as do lights. There are supplies ranging from seamless paper to gaffer tape to gels and most expensive of all the bulbs for the lights. Whereas in the film days I could shoot with my Nikon F3HP for decades (and did), digital is always changing. The Fuji S1 I bought in 2001 for $2K is long since junk. The Canon camcorder I use, I really should replace with a Blackmagic -- but if people don't buy my stuff because you stole it and gave it to them for free, I can't do that. Computers cost money -- video editing is VERY resource demanding and Adobe wants their money every month whether I sold content or you stole it and gave it for free.

The Constitution of the United States established that there are copyrights, trademarks and patents. If you copy someone's book that is published on paper and you print up copies for the cost of printing -- very cheap because you don't have to pay the author, the editors and book designers etc. -- you have stolen. It a lot easier with digital but it is still stealing.

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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by tiemeupalso »

thanks for the correction stephany

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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by stephanie_cd »

dhudson wrote:Yes it is theft. No, you don't have right to share my photos. Or the music of some rock band. My photos and videos are property, intellectual property. If you don't want to buy my work, don't look at it. If you want to look at it, pay the fee. If you don't, you have stolen from me the amount of money of the fee. If I don't make money, I can't make new content and I've lost the capital invested to make what you stole.
This is why we have "Rule 9" in the "Forum Posting Guidelines" and why we're pretty serious about it. [http://www.boundforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=98050] Unfortunately, technology keeps making IP theft easier, whether it's Napster or torrent sites or bootleg DVDs.

Years ago, you weren't allowed to take cameras or recording devices into concerts -- but how do you stop it when almost every cell phone today can take pictures and record movies?

Last month Homeland Security agents detained and interrogated a man in a movie theater because he COULD HAVE BEEN illegally recording the movie on his Google Glass: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2090140/ ... iracy.html I can understand the logic behind it -- even if I don't agree with it! -- but detaining people for "potential crimes" is a little too much like 1984 and Minority Report for my tastes.
tiemeupalso wrote:thanks for the correction stephany
No problem -- in fact, I often wonder if people justify IP theft by incorrectly thinking "nobody would bother filing paperwork for" kinky pictures, not knowing that they're already copyrighted the moment they're taken!

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DarkLizerd
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by DarkLizerd »

The copyright laws could be classified 2 ways...
Pre-Digital and Post-digital...
Pre-digital example: Every picture is a work of art and each one slightly different, so, mainly 1 of each...
Every picture takes raw material (canvas, paint, time) to create...
Copyright prevents "Mike" from making a picture and claiming it is a Da Vinci...
(Da Vinci will not make money from the picture...)
(Don't count re-sales...)

Post-digital: We have better, cheaper, and quicker ways to make pictures. The first "master" takes raw material, but (unless printed out) copy #2 to # infinity takes no raw material... (IE: every copy "should" be free)
BUT, that is not the issue... It is not so much the "picture" is copyrighted as the time invested.

I visit a pay site, and check out the free pictures, (to see them, they are downloaded to my PC)
Later, while looking though my pictures, I find some "Keepers" but they have no watermark...
If I want to use them in some program, I have no way to contact the owner...
But, I discovered if you check the properties of the picture, there is a place for copyright info...
So, if you want your work protected, enter that info...

Protecting digital information (pictures, stories...) is gona be tough now a days...
In some cases, the "stolen" pictures can lead people to your site, and could get you new subscribers...
Watermarks, included info, hidden texts... there are ways to tag a picture to identify ownership, but to track down
who is passing your work around is gona be much harder...
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DarkLizerd
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by DarkLizerd »

Copyrighted.jpg
Not Copyrighted.jpg
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dhudson
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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by dhudson »

I appreciate and applaud the policy of this forum regarding posting copyrighted material.
As to comments in pictures, I often do that but e.g. Twitter specifically strips all that information when posting. All EXIF information is stripped. Fetlife also does this, even stripping colorspace information.

My work can be seen on my sites with some additional sample photos on my Twitter account @dhudsonxxx .
My primary site is http://www.bondagephoto.info ; that's overdue for an update, I've been busy editing video and posting to my clip store http://c4s.com/store/5197 I need to go back and put stuff on the pay site. Of course since pirates long since stole my most popular video ("Alisha Angel Forced Milking") with a fake / stolen credit card and posted it on several pirate forums, sales plummeted. I've gotten one such site to take down the video and blacklist it with a DMCA notice; the other claimed my notice was invalid, thereby allowing them to continue profiting from my work (these sites all have ads on them).

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Re: Copywrite of personal picture postings

Unread post by Closed_doors »

Don't forget, there are 2 types of copyright as well.

Enforcable copyrights. The breach of law is by someone who can be held accountable. (IE: In a country that supports the application of copyright laws, Europe, USA, Canada, Australia..etc.)

Unenforcable copyright. The breach occurs in a country like China, or Cuba, where you have no legal standing to enforce your rights.

As it was explained to me, if you are that worried about your rights, don't post stuff on a public media source like the internet.

I write novels in my spare time, but will NEVER post anything on the WWW for that very reason.
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