What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

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LockedInALocker
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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by LockedInALocker »

     As well as being a member of this forum, I also run 5 Yahoo groups on confinement-related topics, and they all suffer the same problem: lots of people join in a steady stream, but hardly anyone ever posts messages.     The level of activity on this forum is evidence that there are plenty of people who wish to discuss such topics - so why is it so incredibly difficult to get people to discuss anything on the Yahoo groups?     I would like to inject a bit of life into my groups, but have no idea how to.  Even if I or someone else post a message very much on topic, one you would think certain to attract interest, everyone remains deathly silent - or, at best, there is a brief dribble of messages from two or three other people before all goes silent again.     I was just wondering if anyone here has noticed this, and whether they have any ideas about why this is, and whether they know what to do about it.  I can see that this might be a problem on groups with very specialized topics - but it seems to apply just as much to more general groups like the "Locked Inside" group I run, which is more general in its scope.     Are the people in the groups different from the people here (uninterested in discussion, perhaps only in collecting the pictures in the groups)?; or is there something about the format of Yahoo groups that in itself discourages discussion, even if the people are much the same as the active posters in this forum?     I don't want to give up on my groups, so I would appreciate any ideas or thoughts on this.  I've been thinking about this a bit recently, but have been prompted to ask about this now after just now reading a message from the owner of another group who had exactly the same problem, and was wondering whether to wind up his group.  (I advised him to be very careful about deleting it unless he is sure he wants to give up on it long-term.)     In short: what is the secret to successful Yahoo groups?  How do you attract the kind of people who want to talk?  And how do you best encourage discussion?  Why is this forum so conducive to discussion whereas Yahoo groups don't seem to be?     Thanks.Regards, Michael.

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by DarkLizerd »

Many more readers just... "Read-it, looks cool, got not'n to add"....even here, look at the read count and compait to posting count...( 6 reads at this posting...) 
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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by Gavving »

One big problem for yahoo adult groups is that you can't search for them.  Thus if you don't know what they are to begin with, you can't find them. As for discussion, people arent necessarily comfortable with being active public participants with fetish/kink communities.  Most are barely comfortable with doing it in private, and just want to use the web to enable their fantasies or possibly enable RL interaction.

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by Cape Cod Richie »

Had so many problems with Yahoo Groups in the past and not just adult type groups.

Yes you can read the posts, No you can't read the posts you have to join. Oops you can't join you have to do something else. After all the aggravation of jumping through hoops the site would be filled with spam and some really rude (clique type) people.

Never again. That's why this is one of my favorite places.

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

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To start, don't take my tone to mean there is something wrong with Yahoo groups, just my own experience.1. To say Yahoo groups are a dime a dozen is unfair to the dime - it's more like a done for every 10,000.  Sure there are good groups, but who the hell can find them?2. (Successful) forums are hard work.  All of us who run this site spends a lot of time making sure posts are in the right area, flames are squashed and people have a good time.  So many Yahoo groups have no life to them, just a small collection of posts.  People don't want to talk to themselves, and if they think nobody will read their posts they usually don't bother.3. Yahoo groups are the biggest pain in the balls to use.  Joining, then waiting for an admin to let you in - only to see it is a lifeless group or a ton of junk posts.4. Real domain names are your friend.  It may only be $10 to buy a domain name but people tend to respect and flock to sites with one over: groups.yahoo.com/mycoolgroupMy biggest advise for any website or forum is constancy. This forum took years to get here, not months.  If you are serious about your forums, start something on your own, work hard at it to get people there and get them posting.
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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by feline »

To get any group or forum to work you need a minimum of 3 active members, people who will post, and talk to each other.  It can take several hundred members to find these 3 people.Next there needs to be a source of content.  Someone needs to post things to inspire the group, otherwise their is nothing to talk about.In addition spam, flame wars, etc, tend to be instant death.

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

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This thread is very busy, 48 reads so far...( I think, forgot already)And 5 postings, I have seen 100+ and 1 responce...You could close down Yahoo, and get your group here...Moderators, user forum section.... maybe??? 
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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by rubbervixen »

There's a certain 'community inertia' that has to be overcome.

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by tiemeupalso »

i belong to about 40 yahoo groups.out of those i go to mabey 10 regularly.most of the groups  i am in have been taken over by spam.there is even 1 where the only post in it in the last year are notices of a group meeting once a month.only moderated groups have a chance in yahoo,and a little one at that because for every 1 moderated group there is 1000+ that have been abandened by their creators.as for yahoo adult groups,yahoo doesnt show to have any listed in their search,so nobody looks anymore.yahoo cut its own throat when they did away with user rooms in the chat,which 100s o fthe rooms were tied to.people would meet in a chat room and then join the group and kept it alive as long as the chat room was alive.i could go on and on about how fucked up yahoo is but im sure you already know that. 

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LockedInALocker
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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by LockedInALocker »

Thanks for the responses.  I have a few replies to particular comments, and will group some together.[quote="DarkLizerd"]Many more readers just... "Read-it, looks cool, got not'n to add"....even here, look at the read count and compait to posting count...( 6 reads at this posting...)[/quote]     Well, yes - but fairly detailed discussions *do* take place here routinely, even if 10 times as many people read a discussion as post to it.  (I think two of those reads were myself, though, just checking that the post came out the way I intended it to.)     Maybe I'm different from those who have nothing to add, even if they like reading the content; but I find that I am only too eager to share my ideas with others who seem to share the same interest.[quote="Gavving"]One big problem for yahoo adult groups is that you can't search for them.  Thus if you don't know what they are to begin with, you can't find them.[/quote]     I sort of assumed they could be searched for, actually, although the searching didn't always seem to work properly.     Just to test how findable my groups are, I have occasionally tried searching for them myself, using obvious keywords that would be chosen by people searching for that topic - and the groups in question don't turn up.  So it looks as if you're right; but I thought otherwise, because, when I started each group, one of the questions I was asked was whether I wanted it listed in the Yahoo directory or not - and in each case I said yes, to try to help people find it.  This led me to believe that the groups were searchable, so when I couldn't search for them, I wondered what was wrong with the search function.  Maybe that question Yahoo asks you means something different from what I'm assuming.[quote="Gavving"]As for discussion, people arent necessarily comfortable with being active public participants with fetish/kink communities.  Most are barely comfortable with doing it in private, and just want to use the web to enable their fantasies or possibly enable RL interaction.[/quote]     Well, I guess so.  When I first found kinky stuff on the Internet, I didn't feel comfortable saying anything at all for quite some time.  So I sort of developed the idea that I was uncomfortable interacting with others on such topics; but it seems that in fact I have become almost the opposite - so maybe I overestimate others' willingness to talk about such topics.     As for enabling real-life interaction: I have seen posts where people effectively advertise for people with a similar interest to meet with them and do bondage, bagging, boxing, etc. - but I do wonder about whether it is always safe to let someone you know nothing about put you in bondage or under lock and key.  I sometimes wonder if people actually do things together as a result of such posts, and wonder if it normally goes well.     Perhaps I'm trying to use the groups for different purposes than many other people are.Regards, Michael.

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

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[quote="Cape" Cod Richie]Had so many problems with Yahoo Groups in the past and not just adult type groups.Yes you can read the posts, No you can't read the posts you have to join. Oops you can't join you have to do something else.[/quote]     Well, these are owner settings which vary between groups, and I wouldn't have thought that would be too much of a problem in itself.  It does make a certain sense to me to allow moderators to choose the level of access, to best suit the kind of group they want to have, and I wouldn't think there would be any reason why all groups should be the same.     To be sure, I have occasionally come across owners who run their groups in a very strange way.  One bagging group I know won't let you join unless you submit a story or picture or something, and the owner has this thing where he constantly goes on about how it is *not* an asphyxiation group, NOT, NOT, NOT!  And, having over a thousand members, a few months ago he kicked all of them out except for about 15 people he deemed active enough.  About five people have joined in the months since then, and about two posts have been made.  (I haven't read them, because I was one of those kicked out.)  But this is exceptional, and I haven't found most groups to be as difficult to get into as this.     To be honest, this way of running the group seems totally counterproductive to me.  It costs nothing to let people lurk if they want to; and I would prefer to have lurkers than not, because some of them may one day become active members.  So I've never quite understood the reasoning of owners who dislike inactive lurkers and who even remove them sometimes.[quote="Cape" Cod Richie]After all the aggravation of jumping through hoops the site would be filled with spam and some really rude (clique type) people.[/quote]     Lots of groups keep spam out, though, yet are still inactive.  I am careful to keep spammers out of my own groups.  I haven't found rude people to be a significant problem myself - but if they were, I would deal with this too: if it seemed a one-off incident, I would remind them to be polite to others; if it seemed a general pattern, it might be grounds for removing them.  So I don't think spam and rudeness by members are the only or main reasons why people don't post on the groups.Regards, Michael.

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

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[quote="GaggedUtopia"]1. To say Yahoo groups are a dime a dozen is unfair to the dime - it's more like a done for every 10,000.  Sure there are good groups, but who the hell can find them?[/quote]     Well, good groups are often large groups - so people *are* finding them, even if only by chance.[quote="GaggedUtopia"]2. (Successful) forums are hard work.  All of us who run this site spends a lot of time making sure posts are in the right area, flames are squashed and people have a good time.  So many Yahoo groups have no life to them, just a small collection of posts.  People don't want to talk to themselves, and if they think nobody will read their posts they usually don't bother.[/quote]     That is a problem, and I believe it could be one of the problems with my own groups.  I started five of them myself (I said before I had 5 in all, but it's actually 6), and the remaining one I inherited from someone else who didn't have time to keep it up.  That group is by far the largest, and probably has the most posts in its archives too.  Whether that's because it was more successful by nature, or just has a longer history, and more time in which to have accumulated posts, pictures, etc., I'm not sure.     I admit to not having done a lot to build the groups up - but that's because I don't know what to do.  It would be good to find people interested in those topics and knowledgeable, and have them join, but it's difficult to know where to find them - I just don't have enough contacts myself.     It may be a drawback in Yahoo groups: but I am more interested in promoting discussion than in facilitating photo collecting, although I'm willing to do some of that if it makes the groups more attractive to users.     But I also have problems knowing whether particular pictures are acceptable to use, and I believe there is at least anecdotal evidence that complaints by owners of pictures about their improper use is one of the reasons why Yahoo sometimes delete groups.     Also, I just don't know where to find pictures anyway.  Of those I've posted, most came from older groups on similar topics.[quote="GaggedUtopia"]3. Yahoo groups are the biggest pain in the balls to use.  Joining, then waiting for an admin to let you in - only to see it is a lifeless group or a ton of junk posts.[/quote]     In my own groups, people can join freely; but I moderate all new members until they make a legitimate post and I know they are genuine, whereupon I unmoderate them and trust them to post properly.  For groups where lots of people join but few post, I believe this is the most efficient method of running them.     Of course I can't control what people post; but I do delete spam as soon as I notice it, and remove the offender - and try as much as I can to keep the quality of posts good and on topic.[quote="GaggedUtopia"]4. Real domain names are your friend.  It may only be $10 to buy a domain name but people tend to respect and flock to sites with one over: groups.yahoo.com/mycoolgroup[/quote]     There are a few domain names I wouldn't mind having, and which are not taken - but I believed it cost a few hundred dollars a year to keep them going, an amount I feel I can't justify spending.     So has this changed more recently?  If it really is only $10 or so (per year, I assume you mean), I could re-examine the issue of registering domains.[quote="GaggedUtopia"]My biggest advise for any website or forum is constancy. This forum took years to get here, not months.  If you are serious about your forums, start something on your own, work hard at it to get people there and get them posting.[/quote]     I've occasionally considered it, but I'm not sure if I have the skills or contacts to do this - or even enough expert knowledge of my topics of interest to post enough content myself.  I guess a moderator should take something of a lead; but I also believe you can only go so far in posting your own stuff, and ultimately you have to get people posting *their* own stuff too, so the group gets its own momentum.  But getting the others to do that is the big unsolved problem.     Do you believe providing pictures is essential to a successful Yahoo group, or successful forum or site of almost any kind?  Or does it in fact just attract the wrong kind of members (i.e., those who want to collect pictures rather than those who want to exchange ideas)?  This site doesn't seem to have pictures (at least, not that I've so far noticed), and that doesn't seem to inhibit its success, which I rate as pretty high compared to most other similar sites I've seen.  So why do pictures seem essential for a Yahoo group's success?Regards, Michael.

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

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[quote="DarkLizerd"]This thread is very busy, 48 reads so far...( I think, forgot already)And 5 postings, I have seen 100+ and 1 responce...You could close down Yahoo, and get your group here...Moderators, user forum section.... maybe???[/quote]     It might take up huge amounts of disk space, and a lot of management time too.  This whole site seems to be organized completely differently to Yahoo - so would it be feasible to allow people to start Yahoo-type groups here?     (Is that what you meant?  Possibly I misinterpreted your comment.)[quote="tiemeupalso"]i belong to about 40 yahoo groups.out of those i go to mabey 10 regularly.most of the groups  i am in have been taken over by spam.there is even 1 where the only post in it in the last year are notices of a group meeting once a month.[/quote]     I think I know the one you mean - although there might be hundreds like that, so maybe it's not the same one.  But I certainly know the kind of situation you mention.[quote="tiemeupalso"]only moderated groups have a chance in yahoo,and a little one at that because for every 1 moderated group there is 1000+ that have been abandened by their creators.[/quote]     I'm not sure of the proportions - but then I tend to only join groups with relevant content, and that almost certainly means ones that still have a moderator.  But I know of at least one group that has been 100% spam for a couple of years, and dozens of people are streaming in to join it every month - I really don't know what is attracting them.     At least in some cases, the moderators have lost their Yahoo account - so their abandonment may not in all cases voluntary or due to neglect.[quote="tiemeupalso"]as for yahoo adult groups,yahoo doesnt show to have any listed in their search,so nobody looks anymore.[/quote]     I get the impression they have a prudish disapproval of adult groups, and find any excuse they can to hobble them, or even delete them - the flimsiest complaint anyone makes, or whatever it takes.  So why don't they just axe them altogether?[quote="tiemeupalso"]yahoo cut its own throat when they did away with user rooms in the chat,which 100s o fthe rooms were tied to.people would meet in a chat room and then join the group and kept it alive as long as the chat room was alive.[/quote]     I never used that, so I don't know how that worked.     Why did they get rid of it?[quote="tiemeupalso"]i could go on and on about how fucked up yahoo is but im sure you already know that.[/quote]     Conceptually the idea of groups seems to be a good one - it's just the way it actually works out that is problematical.Regards, Michael.LockedInALocker2008-07-12 12:13:17

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by gaggedutopia »

[quote=LockedInALocker]There are a few domain names I wouldn't mind having, and which arenot taken - but I believed it cost a few hundred dollars a year to keepthem going, an amount I feel I can't justify spending.So hasthis changed more recently?  If it really is only $10 or so (per year,I assume you mean), I could re-examine the issue of registering domains.[/quote]The cost of a domain has been sub-$10 for a long time, at least 3-4 years.  With so many spammer domains, ICANN is thinking of raising their fee to make it more cost prohibative.  Even still, it is cheap for a year.Domain hosting (from GoDaddy) is sub $10 a month, their $3.95/mo plan would work for a startup up forum.  I keep a 6.99 plan going for Apache based web development (This server is windows IIS).  Works well, not fast, but not really slow.  Again, good for starter stuff.  If it takes off, upgraded plans are most much more.
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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by DarkLizerd »

13 posting, 130 reads, and a lot of large ones at that...Lockedinalocker:"so would it be feasible to allow people to start Yahoo-type groups here?"That's the idea... I guess it would be sub dividing the forums more...IE: You have mummification, but no Pony play...I'm also on Boundanna.com, you don't have a DIY section, tips and tricks of toy making...Maybe a forum (?) for picture albums... you have in thread postings but no place for the pictures to be saved else where...I use to be on dial-up, when some people reposted the picture to add a note it took forever to load the forum, just to see 1 picture (and nice ones at that) 2 or 3 times...... oops, ranting...   
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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by tiemeupalso »

[quote="LockedInALocker"][quote="tiemeupalso"]yahoo cut its own throat when they did away with user rooms in the chat,which 100s o fthe rooms were tied to.people would meet in a chat room and then join the group and kept it alive as long as the chat room was alive.[/quote]
     I never used that, so I don't know how that worked.
     Why did they get rid of it?
Regards, Michael.
[/quote]  there was a lawsuit regarding the user rooms and a couple of them were talking about child porn.so yahoo just shut down all adult user rooms and their chat,and in effect thee groups havent been the same since.

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by Dianag »

As well as Yahoo just closing down any group that has a complaint made agains it, usually with no warning and no approach to the group moderator, I think many people in our lifestyle community are wary of Yahoo's privacy policy. I have the impression that they're more likely to track Yahoo users and also more likely to pass on this information to any official group that want it, whether it's relevant or not. I'd be interested what others have to say about that.

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by Franzia »

Maybe most people are just using adult Yahoo groups for the pic postings~ if one wishes to get involved with a discussion, forums like this feel more natural.
One good thing about the groups being hidden in Yahoo searches is that it's less likely that someone will accidentally stumble across something to be offended by~   "My gosh! This perversion is bad~ mine is good!!   I"ll have to file a complaint about this!!"

However there is a search engine which may be helpful:
http://www5.adultgroupsrepertory.com/

Franzia2008-07-14 10:43:21

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by JamesShaw »

Well, even if I knew the name of a group to join,  I've no clue as to how to go about it.  Can't search for them.Give me a group name and tell me how.IMWTK!

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RE: What's the problem with Yahoo groups?

Unread post by Franzia »

My previous link doesn't need names of groups for the search~ just use keywords of whatever your interest is.    If you do join some, just don't forget to have your age listed in your Yahoo profile.

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